Talk: Tier

Gravity on levels Three and Four

The article states that Levels Three and Four each have one standard gravity, but the novel states that all levels revolved at the same speed.  Assuming each tier has a different diameter, this can't be true, but the text is ambiguous.

Genar-Hofoen resides at the View Hotel on Level Three, which is described as having "Tier's standard-G level".  Genar-Hofoen notes that his subconscious had reset his physiology to "one standard gravity" after arriving on Tier (note this doesn't mean his subconscious has adapted to match the actual gravity level on Level Three, just that it has reset itself to its inital setting, which would be the Culture's standard-g).  Later, Night City is described as "located one level almost straight down" with "a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere and [...] one standard gravity."  

The article currently interprets this is as meaning Night City is one tier down, i.e. Level Four, meaning Levels Three and Four each have one standard gravity.  However, I think the lowercase "L" in this description would suggest that Night City is actually on Level Three but is located somewhere beneath the View Hotel.

However, Banks makes a distinction between the "Culture-promoted human norm" for gravity and "Tier's standard-G level".  When referring to "one standard gravity" in Night City, this could refer to the Culture standard gravity, which may be greater than the Tier standard, allowing the View Hotel to be on Level Three and Night City to be on Level Four.

I prefer the former explanation which places the View Hotel and Night City on the same Level.  It would be odd for Genar-Hofoen to book a hotel on Level Three with the intention of going out in Night City on Level Four, which would be a considerable distance to travel.  It would also seem redundant to dedicate more than one Level to the same oxygen-nitrogen atmostphere (which Genar-Hofoen presumably breathes) when there are so many different resident species.

As a note, Leffid refers to a Level of Tier with 30% gravity as being "up there" in relation to the Level which hosts the Homomdan Ambassador's party, which I think can be assumed to have greater than 30% standard gravity.  This would suggest the smaller tiers are considered toward the 'top' of Tier and the larger ones at the 'bottom'.  

Lmhrpr (talk) 08:39, May 28, 2020 (UTC)

The location of Night City is complicated by a later passage which states, "Night City was situated on the middle level of this world..." which would place it on Level Five (or Level Four if the numbering starts at zero).  

Lmhrpr (talk) 08:57, May 28, 2020 (UTC)

HELP! Can't picture Tier habitat (Culture series, Excession)

Hello everyone,

I am not sure that I am using this forum properly, please forgive me if I am not...

First of all thanks for everyone for sustaining and making this wiki work. I think I will soon help cleaning some articles.

I wonder if anyone could help me picturing Tier habitat, which is described in the Excession novel. If anyone has any visual representation of it (other than this fractal art, which is beautiful, but did not help me much), it would also help...

I found Bank's depicting of his worlds truly fascinating and detailed, and I am tearing me hair trying to understand this one...i think many of you would understand how frustrating it can be.

Banks writes, in part II of Chapter 6 "Pittance", describing a racing room inside Tier habitat: "They were sitting in a carousel suspended beneath a vast carbon-tubed structure sculpted in the image of a web tree; the thousands of viewing carousels dangled like fruits from the canopy and where multivariously connected by a secondary web of delicate, swaying cable bridges. The view beneathand to either sides was of a series of great steps of stone dotted with vegetation and moving figures; it was very like looking at an ancient amphitheatr which had been lifted from the horizontal to the vertical and each of whose seat levels was able to rotate independently."

A bit later, about the habitat iteself: "Tier was a stepped habitat; its nine levels all revolved at the same speed, but that meant that the outer tiers possessed greater apparent gravity than those nearer the center. The levels themselves were sectionned into compartments up to hundreds of kilometers long and feed with atmospheres of different types and held at different temperatures, while a stunningly complicated and dazzlingly beautiful array of mirrors and mirrofields situated within the staggered cone of the world's axis provided amounts of sunlight precisely timed, attenuated and where necessary altered in wavelengths to mimic the conditions on a hundred different worlds for a hundred different intelligent species."

Here is what I do not understand.

First thing is about the racing room. How is the carousel located relatively to the tiers in the racing room? If they are at the top of the room, and tiers are like an amphitheatr that you turn from the horizontal to the vertical: that would mean that they are ON one of the tier, but apparently, they are not, as they hang on a carbon-tubed structure. Then I don't get how could the tiers be like a returned amphiteatr...

Second thing I don't get is the habitat itself. I approximately picture the cone of nine levels, of nine "tiers". I know that gravity is stronger when the diameter of the ring is bigger: but then, if it's a cone, why would it be that "outer" levels have more gravity than those close to center? Should it not be that the largest tier, on one side, has the strongest gravity, and then progressivily going towards the other side, you have weakier and weakier gravity, last and smallest level being the one with the weakest gravity? And about the "compartments" into which each level is sectionned: does that mean that compartments are INSIDE the tiers themselves? Like each tier is a kind of ring sectionned into compartments? And then, how do you picture that mirror and mirrorfields can make light go into the Tiers? Is it like we have to picture the Tiers as transparent, or have I missed something?

I hope all those questions would not look stupid to you...just understand the frustration of a fan that can't get to imagine what he's reading, and that knows that he is surely the only one...I just want to enjoy as all of you ^^

Thanks again

RZ

I approximately picture the cone of nine levels, of nine "tiers".

This is the kind of shape that I imagine: http://stmedia.stimg.co/ctyp_Devo_Casale.jpg

I know that gravity is stronger when the diameter of the ring is bigger: but then, if it's a cone, why would it be that "outer" levels have more gravity than those close to center?

You are imagining that the outer levels have a smaller diameter? I don't understand how that would work.

Should it not be that the largest tier, on one side, has the strongest gravity, and then progressivily going towards the other side, you have weakier and weakier gravity, last and smallest level being the one with the weakest gravity?

Yes, if the angular velocity stays the same, but the radius increases, then the apparent gravity increases, too.

And about the "compartments" into which each level is sectionned: does that mean that compartments are INSIDE the tiers themselves? Like each tier is a kind of ring sectionned into compartments?

That was my impression. Similar to orbitals, which are sometimes divided up by bulkhead ranges.

And then, how do you picture that mirror and mirrorfields can make light go into the Tiers? Is it like we have to picture the Tiers as transparent, or have I missed something?

Like a smaller ring habitat doesn't have the 1 G / 24 hour cycle that an orbital has, so it rotates perpendicular to the star, and has rotating mirrors in the middle that reflect sunlight onto the ring and make a 24 hour cycle. Omegatron (talk) 00:32, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I should move this conversation to Talk:Tier, though, since it's about that specific article. Omegatron (talk) 00:33, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! You are great. You help me much.

You are imagining that the outer levels have a smaller diameter? I don't understand how that would work.

Actually your question helped me finding what I misunderstood. While Banks and yourself consider "outer" relatively to the AXIS, I was considering the "outer" levels to be the one on each end of the cone... For example, on the picture you shared, you consider "outer" levels beign the one with writings "july 4th 1952" and "forever in our hearts", as they are the biggest one and thus, the farest from the cone's axis. While I would have considered outer levels to be "Bob casale" and "july 4th 1952", as they are the "outer" ones relatively to the middle of the structure. Now that I know that the "outer" just means with the largest diameter, I think I get it.

Is everything I said right?

Like a smaller ring habitat doesn't have the 1 G / 24 hour cycle that an orbital has, so it rotates perpendicular to the star, and has rotating mirrors in the middle that reflect sunlight onto the ring and make a 24 hour cycle.

If you don't mind, can you develop a bit please? What do you mean "rotates perpendicular to the star"?

And what do you mean "doesn't have the 1 G / 24 hour cycle that an orbital has"? That the rotation cycle to obtain 1G of gravity is not 24h, and thus, Tier rotates at another given speed to reach 1G?

Anyway, thank you! ThePrestigious (talk) 15:39, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Is everything I said right?

Sounds right to me.

If you don't mind, can you develop a bit please? What do you mean "rotates perpendicular to the star"?

Sorry, I mean the axis of rotation points at the star, and is perpendicular to the axis of revolution around the star. So the star illuminates the inside of the red energy dome photo above. Unlike a Culture orbital, which has an axis of rotation roughly parallel to its axis of revolution around the star, so the star illuminates the inner surface directly.

And what do you mean "doesn't have the 1 G / 24 hour cycle that an orbital has"? That the rotation cycle to obtain 1G of gravity is not 24h, and thus, Tier rotates at another given speed to reach 1G?

I don't know if the diameter of Tier is mentioned, but since it needs mirrors, I assume it's smaller than a Culture orbital. Culture Orbitals have a diameter and rotation period that, when illuminated edge-on, produces about 1 G of gravity and about 24 hours day/night cycle, automatically, with no need for shade or mirrors, etc. Omegatron (talk) 20:10, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

https://www.deviantart.com/wild-endeavour/art/1-pixel-x-10km-and-Above-831659298 has a drawing of Tier, but size is estimated. Omegatron (talk) 05:59, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Ok, thanks a lot! I can picture it now. Really, thank you...

The only thing you did not answer to is about the racing room :

First thing is about the racing room. How is the carousel located relatively to the tiers in the racing room? If they are at the top of the room, and tiers are like an amphitheatr that you turn from the horizontal to the vertical: that would mean that they are ON one of the tier, but apparently, they are not, as they hang on a carbon-tubed structure. Then I don't get how could the tiers be like a returned amphiteatr...

And also, as I have, from time to time, this kind of misunderstandings, where should I post about this? For example, there is another description I can't understand, about a particuar scene that Sleeper services has created... (as I have, possibly, minor cognitive troubles relative to understanding when reading, I hope nobody would mind if I go on asking, this helps me much in geting back my reading capacities)

ThePrestigious (talk)

I don't know about the racing room. I probably skimmed through it when reading the book. I'll try to re-read it and see if I understand.

For questions about Sleeper Service, add a comment at the bottom of Sleeper Service or post on Talk:Sleeper Service. (I enabled comments recently.) Omegatron (talk) 19:22, 5 December 2020 (UTC)